Ali's Islam Thread
your body is supposedly god's temple. violating it, is like violating his temple. Yahweh also decreed that adultry was one of the big 10, when he handed moses the stone post its.
ziggy @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:26 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
Neither. Hell I support the Death Penalty, but from my limited knowledge, it seems that Muslim nations (along with China) and them out for really stupid reasons.
Stupid reasons being?
Apostates should be killed.
WTF is a apostate

A person who turns away from his or her religion.
So as an atheist am I kufar? Whats your thought on that?
Tricks @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:30 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
Neither. Hell I support the Death Penalty, but from my limited knowledge, it seems that Muslim nations (along with China) and them out for really stupid reasons.
Stupid reasons being?
Apostates should be killed.
More recently, Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi, a noted controversial 20th century Islamic Scholar, argued that verses [Qur'an 9:11] of the Qur'an sanction death for apostasy. The argument given by Mawdudi[11] for these verses is:
"The following is the occasion for the revelation of this verse: During the pilgrimage (hajj) in A.H. 9 God Most High ordered a proclamation of an immunity. By virtue of this proclamation all those who, up to that time, were fighting against God and His Apostle and were attempting to obstruct the way of God's religion through all kinds of excesses and false covenants, were granted from that time a maximum respite of four months. During this period they were to ponder their own situation. If they wanted to accept Islam, they could accept it and they would be forgiven. If they wanted to leave the country, they could leave. Within this fixed period nothing would hinder them from leaving. Thereafter those remaining, who would neither accept Islam nor leave the country, would be dealt with by the sword." In this connection it was said: "If they repent and uphold the practice of prayer and almsgiving, then they are your brothers in religion. If after this, however, they break their covenant, then war should be waged against the leaders of kufr (infidelity). Here "covenant breaking" in no way can be construed to mean "breaking of political covenants". Rather, the context clearly determines its meaning to be "confessing Islam and then renouncing it". Thereafter the meaning of "fight the heads of disbelief" ([Qur'an 9:11]) can only mean that war should be waged against the leaders instigating apostasy."
Mawdudi's interpretation is supported by other Muslim writers. For example, Afzal ur-Rahman in Muhammad, Blessing for Mankind, Seerah Foundation, London, Revised Second Edition, 1988, p. 218 under "Apostasy" states:
"People who turn away from Islam and do not repent but wage war and create mischief in the land are also considered as murderers. "But if they break their oaths after making compacts and taunt you for your faith, you should fight with these ringleaders of disbelief because their oaths are not trustworthy: it may be that the sword alone will restrain them" ([Qur'an 9:12]). And in Surah Al-Nahl, "But whosoever accepts disbelief willingly, he incurs God's Wrath, and there is severe torment for all such people"([Qur'an 16:106])
However, there are also some scholars that reject Mawdudi's interpretation. S. A. Rahman (in Punishment of Apostasy in Islam, Institute of Islamic Culture, Lahore, 1972, pp. 10-13) concluded "that not only is there no punishment for apostasy provided in the Book but that the Word of God clearly envisages the natural death of the apostate. He will be punished only in the Hereafter...." (p. 54)
He continues and says that there is no reference to the death penalty in any of the 20 instances of apostasy mentioned in the Qur'an.
In his book on Punishment of Apostasy in Islam, Rahman declares the verse [Qur'an 2:256] to be "one of the most important verses of the Qur'an, containing a charter of freedom of conscience unparalleled in the religious annals of mankind . . .". He goes on to criticize the attempts by Muslim scholars over the ages to narrow its broad humanistic meaning and impose limits on its scope in their attempts to reconcile it with their interpretations of Muhammad's Sunna. However, Maqaalaat li'l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz [5] rejects the idea that 2:256 deals with apostasy, and claims that it only applied to non-Muslim dhimmis who were paying their jizya, and that it was subsequently abrogated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
http://hrw.org/press/2002/11/iranacademic.htm
The news of this event reached Ibn Abbas [Muhammad’s cousin and highly reliable transmitter of traditions] who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Messenger forbad it, saying, ‘Do no punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah Messenger, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’" (Bukhari, Apostates, no. 6922
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
your body is supposedly god's temple. violating it, is like violating his temple. Yahweh also decreed that adultry was one of the big 10, when he handed moses the stone post its.
Well god and I have big problems then

I think I prefer the Akido
Tricks @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:32 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
your body is supposedly god's temple. violating it, is like violating his temple. Yahweh also decreed that adultry was one of the big 10, when he handed moses the stone post its.
Yeah I was saving that one...
http://www.payvand.com/news/01/feb/1085.html
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/001327.html (to show lashings can kill)
http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish ... 4981.shtml
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
Neither. Hell I support the Death Penalty, but from my limited knowledge, it seems that Muslim nations (along with China) and them out for really stupid reasons.
Stupid reasons being?
Apostates should be killed.
WTF is a apostate

A person who turns away from his or her religion.
So i'm an apostate

How does this stuff happen to me, I go to a party, drink ,have fun, come home to find out I'm an Apostate, jebus
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
See I still don't get where me having sex, taking a depo needle is a sin against god?
I think its prohibited because it can cause births that were not planned and quite frequently the child cannot be support by their parents so it eventually leads to the child going to one parent or to a foster house, which is completely unfair to that kid.
That why I get depo shots
Tricks @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:35 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
Neither. Hell I support the Death Penalty, but from my limited knowledge, it seems that Muslim nations (along with China) and them out for really stupid reasons.
Stupid reasons being?
Apostates should be killed.
More recently, Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi, a noted controversial 20th century Islamic Scholar, argued that verses [Qur'an 9:11] of the Qur'an sanction death for apostasy. The argument given by Mawdudi[11] for these verses is:
"The following is the occasion for the revelation of this verse: During the pilgrimage (hajj) in A.H. 9 God Most High ordered a proclamation of an immunity. By virtue of this proclamation all those who, up to that time, were fighting against God and His Apostle and were attempting to obstruct the way of God's religion through all kinds of excesses and false covenants, were granted from that time a maximum respite of four months. During this period they were to ponder their own situation. If they wanted to accept Islam, they could accept it and they would be forgiven. If they wanted to leave the country, they could leave. Within this fixed period nothing would hinder them from leaving. Thereafter those remaining, who would neither accept Islam nor leave the country, would be dealt with by the sword." In this connection it was said: "If they repent and uphold the practice of prayer and almsgiving, then they are your brothers in religion. If after this, however, they break their covenant, then war should be waged against the leaders of kufr (infidelity). Here "covenant breaking" in no way can be construed to mean "breaking of political covenants". Rather, the context clearly determines its meaning to be "confessing Islam and then renouncing it". Thereafter the meaning of "fight the heads of disbelief" ([Qur'an 9:11]) can only mean that war should be waged against the leaders instigating apostasy."
Mawdudi's interpretation is supported by other Muslim writers. For example, Afzal ur-Rahman in Muhammad, Blessing for Mankind, Seerah Foundation, London, Revised Second Edition, 1988, p. 218 under "Apostasy" states:
"People who turn away from Islam and do not repent but wage war and create mischief in the land are also considered as murderers. "But if they break their oaths after making compacts and taunt you for your faith, you should fight with these ringleaders of disbelief because their oaths are not trustworthy: it may be that the sword alone will restrain them" ([Qur'an 9:12]). And in Surah Al-Nahl, "But whosoever accepts disbelief willingly, he incurs God's Wrath, and there is severe torment for all such people"([Qur'an 16:106])
However, there are also some scholars that reject Mawdudi's interpretation. S. A. Rahman (in Punishment of Apostasy in Islam, Institute of Islamic Culture, Lahore, 1972, pp. 10-13) concluded "that not only is there no punishment for apostasy provided in the Book but that the Word of God clearly envisages the natural death of the apostate. He will be punished only in the Hereafter...." (p. 54)
He continues and says that there is no reference to the death penalty in any of the 20 instances of apostasy mentioned in the Qur'an.
In his book on Punishment of Apostasy in Islam, Rahman declares the verse [Qur'an 2:256] to be "one of the most important verses of the Qur'an, containing a charter of freedom of conscience unparalleled in the religious annals of mankind . . .". He goes on to criticize the attempts by Muslim scholars over the ages to narrow its broad humanistic meaning and impose limits on its scope in their attempts to reconcile it with their interpretations of Muhammad's Sunna. However, Maqaalaat li'l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz [5] rejects the idea that 2:256 deals with apostasy, and claims that it only applied to non-Muslim dhimmis who were paying their jizya, and that it was subsequently abrogated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam http://hrw.org/press/2002/11/iranacademic.htmThe news of this event reached Ibn Abbas [Muhammad’s cousin and highly reliable transmitter of traditions] who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Messenger forbad it, saying, ‘Do no punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah Messenger, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’" (Bukhari, Apostates, no. 6922
Please only quote the Quran while debating about Islam. If not the Quran then Sunnah. Whether this
Hadith is authentic or not, is questionable.
It's in the link YOU gave me.
ziggy @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:36 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
ziggy ziggy:
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
Neither. Hell I support the Death Penalty, but from my limited knowledge, it seems that Muslim nations (along with China) and them out for really stupid reasons.
Stupid reasons being?
Apostates should be killed.
WTF is a apostate

A person who turns away from his or her religion.
So as an atheist am I kufar? Whats your thought on that?
Actually you would be an atheist or kufar, bother are correct. As an atheist, I can you tell you that you have a good start because if a person was to show you the true religion, you wont be biased.
Athisme is the start because you already believe in half of the shahadah, and the only thing one would have to do is prove the other half.
Shahadah is what you need to say to enter Islam "[I testify that] there is no god (ilah) but Allah, and [I testify that] Muhammad is the messenger of Allah."
so basically you already believe in
"[I testify that] there is no god (ilah)" so all one would have to do is prove rest of the Shahadah.
And as a kufar? are they considered different?
Tricks @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:36 pm
novachick novachick:
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
Neither. Hell I support the Death Penalty, but from my limited knowledge, it seems that Muslim nations (along with China) and them out for really stupid reasons.
Stupid reasons being?
Apostates should be killed.
WTF is a apostate

A person who turns away from his or her religion.
So i'm an apostate

How does this stuff happen to me, I go to a party, drink ,have fun, come home to find out I'm an Apostate, jebus

In Iran, you would be killed.
Tricks Tricks:
novachick novachick:
Ali786 Ali786:
novachick novachick:
Tricks Tricks:
Ali786 Ali786:
$1:
Neither. Hell I support the Death Penalty, but from my limited knowledge, it seems that Muslim nations (along with China) and them out for really stupid reasons.
Stupid reasons being?
Apostates should be killed.
WTF is a apostate

A person who turns away from his or her religion.
So i'm an apostate

How does this stuff happen to me, I go to a party, drink ,have fun, come home to find out I'm an Apostate, jebus

In Iran, you would be killed.

I think i prefer rough riding in Canada