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Rajoy should be ousted and replaced by somebody willing to find a peaceful way out of this mess. He is leading Spain into utter chaos.

   

This is like a marital break-up; you can do it calmly or you can go crazy. There have to be peaceful mechanisms for borders to be adjusted.

   

Not exactly, but the PP is no fan of the 40% of Catalans who want independence.




And Dog's quote;


Which is absolutely correct, the seperatists think they can import a bunch
of low IQ useful idiots. How stupid they are.



Nahh, Spain needs the money too much.
And a lot of Catalan debt is held by the Madrid government.
Another thing to hammer the leftists with.
Also Catalan is Spain for 500 years, no one wants to be the one who
'broke Spain'.

Having said that, if Catalan really wants, they are going to have to find
a couple thousand people ready to die for it.
Without it, not happening.

   

That is outdated thinking. Nobody needs to die for a border to change any more. Scotland and Quebec are the examples to follow. If you want to go, goodbye and good luck.

   

In case you haven't noticed, neither of those have 'separated' yet.


What part of "it's against the Constitution of the country to separate"

don't you understand ?

   

They're not even going to wait till Tuesday.


Catalan Parliament: suspended



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41514398

Catalan crisis: Spanish court bars MPs' independence move

Catalan Parliament: suspended

   

   

Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough. They were given the OPPORTUNITY to vote on their future (in Quebec's case a little less clearly) and nobody had to die over it. The Scottish referendum should be the model for resolving these issues. A country that respects its regions like that has a good chance of keeping them and keeping them fairly happy.

   

Not exactly. The Spanish Constitution refers to the country as indissoluble but there's no part of the document that I can find that specifically forbids secession.

Likewise in the USA the Constitution makes florid references to the Union but nowhere in the document is secession specifically forbidden. The statist legal scholars state that since there is no mechanism for secession then it is illegal. The state's rights people say that the 10th Amendment's blanket reservation of powers to the states necessarily includes the right to secede.

Ditto with Catalan.

The people of Catalan voted for the current Spanish Constitution so therefore it derives its authority (within Catalan at least) from the consent of the Catalan people. Absent that consent the Spanish Constitution is no longer authoritative for Catalan.

   

But doesn't indissolubility implicitly preclude secession?

   

Yes, and there is no 10th Amendment in Spain either.

And the 'withdrawal of consent' has not taken place.

Nor will it. The Feds will cancel the Parliament and have direct rule
from Madrid before they let Catalan 'officially' try to leave.

Then more arrests.

Then fresh elections ' free and fair '... wink wink.

   

And in the Charter of Canada there's this language:



Does this mean that only people who believe in God can be Canadians? You could read it that way if you wanted to.

The term 'indissoluble' in the Spanish Constitution is part of the preamble. It is a goal of the document to preserve the Spanish nation. It is not the binding part of it anymore than the first part of the Charter is binding.

And even if the secession was clearly illegal under Spanish law then how will Madrid enforce it? With more police? With troops? Will Madrid order airstrikes on Barcelona? Will we see the members of the Catalan government executed for treason? Where will it end?

Seriously, my wife and I said 'til death do we part' when we got married but does that mean I can force her to stay married to me if she doesn't want to be with me anymore?

And what about the UK? Can they be forced to stay in the EU? Can the EU justify using military force to keep a member nation part of the EU?

Tell you what, were I a Catalan and my people started getting killed because they wanted independence then I'd be making a trip to Madrid to express my sincere disapproval to the king and to the PM.

And if Madrid thinks that any violence will be contained to Catalonia then they are deluded.

   

After the publicity gained by the Civil Guard the other day for all the wrong reasons, the federal government may try to exert financial and legal pressure this week. I see Pique, who voted the other day, got booed every time he touched the ball against Albania tonight. Great way to get rid of a great player.

Of course, the main thing is that they sort this mess out before I go golfing there next spring. Should probably go easy educating the locals on the necessity of Catalan independence.

   

Catalonia is expected to declare independence within the next hour.

   

Sorry Bart, they are going to choke it and dodge.
The EU called.

   

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