Should Canada Cede the island?

Streaker Streaker:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Streaker Streaker:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Russian and US submarines routinely infiltrated each others waters and that was when both had massive military expenditures and quite the range of technology... Simply put unless canada starts spending money on their military they won't be able to catch them, when they do, they'll be able to catch them some of the time.

As for america being isolationist... how many troops do we have overseas? How many military operations has the US been involved in since the end of WWII? In fact, has there even been a year in which the US has not had some form of military engagement in the past 50 years? I'm not proud of this by any means, but this is hardly the actions you can expect from an isolationist country.

America may not be isolationist in its foreign policy, but it is well on its way to being isolated from the rest of the planet as a result of it, perhaps because it has too often taken the form of war.

The arrogance, ruthlessness and hypocrisy of US foreign policy means that an increasing number of people around the world see the US as the real "Evil Empire".

So far that's Americans' problem. There's no reason for Canada to get any further entangled in it.

The US is hardly isolated, and it has an incredible number of allies across the world largely because the countries know, when it comes down to it, we're one of the few allies left in the world who will stand up for them. Honestly now, the pacific rim has a large amount of support for the US, as they are seen as the only power preventing chinese encroachment on their territory.

Similiarly I'm sure the US will be further isolated when it provides affordable, and safe housing to the third world

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?for ... ntentId=64

Yes the US has made misteps, but we are a far cry from isolationist, isolated, or anything you can claim which is to a similiar effect.

Well I'll be! That Dubya is going to give all those third-world wretches with their starving babies homes made out of styrofoam :!:

Gosh! It turns out he's a nice guy!

Did I mention a word about George Bush doing any of this? No I didn't, so kindly listen. America extends far beyond our government, and while in many other countries the government forms the primary source of aid and assistance, in the US the private sector forms the bulwark of our assistance to the rest of the world.

When you claim america that america is isolated understand that America's reach stretches across the world and is largely positive. From the peace corps to the numerous private charities, to organizations like the ones I quoted Americans are working incredibly hard to make the world a better place.

$1:

I guess he'll be starting with those families who had their homes destroyed in Iraq... :roll:

Regardless, if the US isn't presently isolated it is well on its way to becoming so. Just keep rewarding people like Bush for dragging your country into morally dubious wars (and for shamelessly pandering to peoples' basest instincts) and over time America will find itself with fewer and fewer friends.

For starters, america is not defined by george bush, nor will it ever be defined by a single person.

Secondly as far as isolation goes, the US is the only western power with an influence in asia, and has favorable approval ratings as a result. Even vietnam, which still has bitter memories from the US war showed incredibly strong approval ratings of the US (when I saw the poll results a while back it was in the 70% range). Mongolia as well has incredibly favorable dealings with the United States as we provide them not only with training, but our troops offer free (and highly advanced) medical treatment to the citizenry.

To claim the only western country with an influence in the worlds largest continent is now moving towards Isolation is ludicrous.

Tman1 Tman1:

I already have scores of people here who seem to know what I am talking about and agree with me but not some stupid individuals like yourself..odd.

I did ask you several times, and you refused to answer me every time, instead answering questions with questions or saying the whole north is at risk because of a tiny island no one cared about until last week. It would have been so much easier if you had just answered my questions, but you decided to make it a game of pulling teeth, so this is what you get.

No cooperation whatsoever between Canada and the US regarding Northwest Passage until the US respects Canadian sovereignty.

Streaker Streaker:

No cooperation whatsoever between Canada and the US regarding Northwest Passage until the US respects Canadian sovereignty.

The USA, the UK, Russia, China, Japan, and effin' Lichtenstein aren't going to give one hairy rats' ass about Canadian sovereignty when Denmark makes a fool of Ottawa and the Canadian forces are unable to do much of anything about anyone transiting Canadian waters without permission.

Canada needs to get serious about her defence in an era when resources for six billion people are becoming critical issues. I guarantee you that there are people out there dreaming up ways to relieve Canada of her birthright and they see the Hans Island issue not as a joke but as a symbol of Canada's weakness and vulnerability.

Streaker Streaker:

No cooperation whatsoever between Canada and the US regarding Northwest Passage until the US respects Canadian sovereignty.

The USA, the UK, Russia, China, Japan, and effin' Lichtenstein aren't going to give one hairy rats' ass about Canadian sovereignty when Denmark makes a fool of Ottawa and the Canadian forces are unable to do much of anything about anyone transiting Canadian waters without permission.

Canada needs to get serious about her defence in an era when resources for six billion people are becoming critical issues. I guarantee you that there are people out there dreaming up ways to relieve Canada of her birthright and they see the Hans Island issue not as a joke but as a symbol of Canada's weakness and vulnerability.

I agree as well, but I thought in your original posts about this that the U.S would back up Canada...what happend to your enthusiasm? :wink:

Tman1 Tman1:

I agree as well, but I thought in your original posts about this that the U.S would back up Canada...what happend to your enthusiasm? :wink:

You know what? I support Canada and Canadian sovereignty. But the USA and Canada are getting a little distant and some of you good folks hereabouts (I'm in Victoria right now) should not delude yourselves into thinking a Democrat White House would be more respectful - they'll just shake your hand as they lift your wallet and screw your daughter, is all.

Canada seems to hinge on who runs the USA and that is a really shitty place to be.

This morning I looked out the window and saw a US helicopter no more than four or five klicks out and watched as three frigates and a cruiser came and went to Bremerton via the Straits. Esquimalt is mostly empty and seems abandoned.

With Canada making friends with China and then having irritating little issues with Bush & etc. Canada is creating an uncertain future for herself.

Would the USA intervene against Denmark, absolutely. I doubt we would do it publicly, but we would do it.

But doesn't that send the wrong signal to the world that a Canada without US protection is ripe for the picking?

The Chinese political presence in Washington is HUGE and it is just a matter of bribery and chicanery before Washington will turn a blind eye to Chinese adventures in Canada. And Hillary Clinton is a big friend of China.

Denmark is not so much a threat as a domino. Let that one fall and then more will fall in succession.

Ultimately, my point here is that Canada needs to be able to defend herself and spank the hell out of anyone who threatens Canadian sovereignty.

Including the USA, if needs be.

You know what? I support Canada and Canadian sovereignty. But the USA and Canada are getting a little distant and some of you good folks hereabouts (I'm in Victoria right now) should not delude yourselves into thinking a Democrat White House would be more respectful - they'll just shake your hand as they lift your wallet and screw your daughter, is all.

Canada seems to hinge on who runs the USA and that is a really shitty place to be.

This morning I looked out the window and saw a US helicopter no more than four or five klicks out and watched as three frigates and a cruiser came and went to Bremerton via the Straits. Esquimalt is mostly empty and seems abandoned.

With Canada making friends with China and then having irritating little issues with Bush & etc. Canada is creating an uncertain future for herself.

Would the USA intervene against Denmark, absolutely. I doubt we would do it publicly, but we would do it.

But doesn't that send the wrong signal to the world that a Canada without US protection is ripe for the picking?

The Chinese political presence in Washington is HUGE and it is just a matter of bribery and chicanery before Washington will turn a blind eye to Chinese adventures in Canada. And Hillary Clinton is a big friend of China.

Tman1 Tman1:

I agree as well, but I thought in your original posts about this that the U.S would back up Canada...what happend to your enthusiasm? :wink:

You know what? I support Canada and Canadian sovereignty. But the USA and Canada are getting a little distant and some of you good folks hereabouts (I'm in Victoria right now) should not delude yourselves into thinking a Democrat White House would be more respectful - they'll just shake your hand as they lift your wallet and screw your daughter, is all.

Canada seems to hinge on who runs the USA and that is a really shitty place to be.

This morning I looked out the window and saw a US helicopter no more than four or five klicks out and watched as three frigates and a cruiser came and went to Bremerton via the Straits. Esquimalt is mostly empty and seems abandoned.

With Canada making friends with China and then having irritating little issues with Bush & etc. Canada is creating an uncertain future for herself.

Would the USA intervene against Denmark, absolutely. I doubt we would do it publicly, but we would do it.

But doesn't that send the wrong signal to the world that a Canada without US protection is ripe for the picking?

The Chinese political presence in Washington is HUGE and it is just a matter of bribery and chicanery before Washington will turn a blind eye to Chinese adventures in Canada. And Hillary Clinton is a big friend of China.

Denmark is not so much a threat as a domino. Let that one fall and then more will fall in succession.

Ultimately, my point here is that Canada needs to be able to defend herself and spank the hell out of anyone who threatens Canadian sovereignty.

Including the USA, if needs be.

Excuse my ignorance, but where is Hans Island? Is it near that big one which forms the capital island of Nunavut? And for what it's worth, don't give up Hans Island - it's not like Princess Mary or Prince Frederik are really going to do anything with it anyway. You'd be lucky to fit Prince Edward Island a few times or New Brunswick in Denmark it's that small!

But they speak really good English and have excellent social services programs ...

And when will the Americans ever overthrow their Government? The title "Mr. President" has become their equivalent of royal title, e.g. "HRH". So therefore it would be blasphemy for them to even think about it. It would be "un-American". ARGH that arrogance, ARGH that stupidity! The Australian experience has taught our populace that you never 100% trust politicians and that compulsory voting makes everyone know at least who is in power.

If Americans have so many friends, why do Americans have Canadian flags on their backpacks? Why are European slang terms for Americans all derivatives of the expression "target practice"? And why does most of the English-speaking world look at stereotypical American tourists with horror and disdain? It isn't necessarily their fault that the stereotypical American tourist is so ignorant and so arrogant - rather it is the perpetuation of an internalised culture which unfortunately has pictures of a bikini-clad Jessica Simpson with the headline: "God this is a great country!". (The Jessica Simpson bit may not be unfortunate depending on your preferences, but the headline is).

Final point: in Queensland, our tropical North-Eastern state, there's a slang term for Americans which might upset them a bit ... they're called "sepos" there.

Let me explain: Australian slang always works in three stages.
1. A slang term for an American is ... Yank
2. What rhymes with "yank"? Tank
3. What is the worst type of "tank"? Septic tank

Take point three (3) and apply Australian English street word shortening rules and you get "sepo". There's hundreds of words in the Australian English vocabulary which are shortened like that.

And this is coming from your "friends" in Australia .....

Dude, Greenland isn't a country. If it was then why would Denmark be fighting for Hans Island in the first place?

The world's largest island, Greenland is about 81% ice-capped. Vikings reached the island in the 10th century from Iceland; Danish colonization began in the 18th century and Greenland was made an integral part of Denmark in 1953. It joined the European Community (now the European Union) with Denmark in 1973 but withdrew in 1985 over a dispute over stringent fishing quotas. Greenland was granted self-government in 1979 by the Danish parliament. The law went into effect the following year. Denmark continues to exercise control of Greenland's foreign affairs.

Tman1 Tman1:

IceOwl IceOwl:

Tman1 Tman1:

I already have scores of people here who seem to know what I am talking about and agree with me but not some stupid individuals like yourself..odd.

I did ask you several times, and you refused to answer me every time, instead answering questions with questions or saying the whole north is at risk because of a tiny island no one cared about until last week. It would have been so much easier if you had just answered my questions, but you decided to make it a game of pulling teeth, so this is what you get.

Or you can take the time and read through the thread so I wouldnt have to repeat it. No, you made the game, take a look at your own mile long shredded posts Macduff.

I read the entire thread. I saw no such information.