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UK: The Brexit Discussion Topic

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martin14 @ Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:56 pm

CNN
Guardian
GQ

All fake news Remain shill globalist whores. :lol:


Get your fake propaganda somewhere else.


The current economic numbers out of the UK are fine.
THAT is the only important thing, not your fake bullshit wild speculation...
that never happened.

   



Douwe @ Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:31 pm

martin14 martin14:
CNN
Guardian
GQ

All fake news Remain shill globalist whores. :lol:


Get your fake propaganda somewhere else.


The current economic numbers out of the UK are fine.
THAT is the only important thing, not your fake bullshit wild speculation...
that never happened.



Yeah right. What sources do you use? Breitbart? Fox? Trump News Central? Brexit is a disaster and you can't prove otherwise.

   



Sunnyways @ Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:01 am

Whether Brexit was a good idea for the British economy will take at least a decade to give any reasonable opinion on and it will still be guesswork either way. Looking at GDP won't be the full answer either. One of the drivers for Brexit was the level of regional disparitiies in wealth over there. I can't see a Global Britain policy improving that too much.

   



herbie @ Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:49 am

Britain is erasing itself from the world – and the West should take heed

$1:
Is Britain stuck this way?

After this week’s parliamentary drama of unrehearsed brinkmanship and botched rescue plans, it’s time to ask that question.

For three years, the United Kingdom has effectively been reduced to a single-issue country, all but absent from the great events of the world and unable to solve many of its own problems. This sudden deflation of a once-important country has been the most avoidable of tragedies – the purely self-imposed result of its ruling party’s determination to pursue a 2016 opinion-taking exercise to its ultimate conclusion.

Not even the most ardent believers in that conclusion – “Brexit” – can agree what it really ought to be, what useful purpose it could possibly serve or when it will be reached. Even if MPs are able to agree next week to a transition deal with the European Union, and the other 27 EU countries agree to let Britain postpone the scheduled end to their relationship long enough to let such a deal take effect, that will only be the beginning of the beginning. Negotiating the trade and political terms of actual independence will take much longer – Canada took more than 10 years to reach a simpler and more friendly deal with Europe. Britain could lose an entire decade.

The only thing that could break British politics out of this recursive loop of self-erasure would be a second referendum with a positive result, or a sudden political decision to walk away from the omnishambles and cancel Britain’s invocation of the EU constitution’s Article 50. Those seemingly self-evident solutions are being avoided by British politicians because leading figures in both major parties share an underlying fear that their voters – at least those in pro-Brexit England – really meant it. That is, they are resigned to the notion that this was an inevitable and repeatable product of deep-seated English beliefs.

But was it? A lot of scholarly and journalistic attention has been paid to the so-called “left-behind voters,” those alienated, low-information individuals, overwhelmingly older white men with working-class family histories, whose disenchantment with mainstream left-wing and right-wing politics has made them vulnerable to widespread conspiracy theories about immigrants, minorities, crime and Europe.

Those fears were amplified and given credence by Britain’s tabloid media and by the highly xenophobic pre-2016 messages of Britain’s Tory party – for example, the immigrant-targeting vans painted with “go home or face arrest” messages that were the signature work of then-home secretary Theresa May. Then-prime minister David Cameron’s ill-considered attempt to neuter his party’s far-right flank with a referendum on EU membership gave these voters a rare chance to express their disenchantment with a symbolic act of revolt.

Many British analysts, including those within the Conservative and Labour parties, have argued that the mainstream parties made a mistake by supposedly turning away from these voters, and should have pandered more to their fears and anxieties, perhaps by taking more seriously their delusions about newcomers and minorities.

Their underlying assumption is that the “left-behinds” are a permanent fixture on the British landscape and that the only solution is to accommodate them. This ignores the most prominent fact about these voters: Their numbers have dwindled fast – from more than half the electorate a generation ago to about one in five today – as Britain has become a middle-class country. And they could have dwindled faster.

In one of the most detailed big-data statistical analyses of the 2016 referendum, University of Leicester actuarial scientist Aihua Zhang found that the most decisive factor in Britain’s Brexit decision was not the age or gender of voters but their education rate: “An increase of about 3 per cent in the proportion of British adults [with] higher education in England and Wales,” she found, “could have reversed the referendum result in the U.K.”

In other words, if British politicians had chosen to invest in relatively minor increases in the education rate, and in the financial support that makes it easier for people to pursue higher education, they could have reduced this population to an electorally insignificant rump. This wouldn’t mean bringing Britain’s higher-education rate up to the levels of Canada (about 10 percentage points higher) – in fact, if Mr. Cameron and Ms. May had simply avoided their post-2010 decision to cut education spending by 8 per cent, that alone might have averted the Brexit disaster. Britain’s Tories didn’t ignore the left-behinds: They embraced and coddled them, and failed to diminish their numbers.

This is the test for politicians across the Western world: Whether to appeal to the prejudices of those left-behind voters, or to have the foresight to transform more of them into “moved-aheads” who don’t poison politics. We now know the consequences of that decision, as Britain spirals into the distance.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... ould-take/

   



Thanos @ Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:11 pm

herbie herbie:
Britain is erasing itself from the world – and the West should take heed


The US too. I for one welcome our upcoming Chinese overlords, because there's no way they can be as fucky in the head as terminal late-stage MAGA America has turned out to be. :|

Image

   



FieryVulpine @ Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Civilizations usually self-destruct after 300-400 years. The West is overdue for a collapse on the scale of 476.

   



DrCaleb @ Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:37 am

:lol:

EU says short delay is possible if MPs back deal

"My way, or the Highway, Mrs. May"

   



llama66 @ Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:48 pm

FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Civilizations usually self-destruct after 300-400 years. The West is overdue for a collapse on the scale of 476.

Where does this number come from? It's total bunk. The Pandyan empire lasted 1800 years, Rome lasted 1400 years (add another 400 years for the Republic before the Empire) (so also 1800 years), The Byzantine's lasted 1000 years, The Holy Roman Empire 800 Years, The Ottoman Empire 600 years, The Danish Empire (yes, its a thing) 600 years, The Spanish and Portuguese 575 years, The French 485. The English 416....

These are major civilizations that have lasted centuries, some enduring millennia

   



BartSimpson @ Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:26 pm

herbie herbie:
Britain is erasing itself from the world – and the West should take heed


FFS Herbie, this is the most absurd and utterly fucked up argument against the Brexit anyone could possibly make.

Really, by refusing to erase Britain from existence by allowing it to be subsumed into the emerging nation-state European Union Britain is somehow erasing itself?

[laughat] [bonk] [wedgie] [rtfm] PDT_Armataz_01_32

   



Sunnyways @ Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:05 pm

Any US-UK trade deal will have to get through Congress:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 32541.html

   



BartSimpson @ Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:43 pm

Sunnyways Sunnyways:
Any US-UK trade deal will have to get through Congress:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 32541.html


It'll have to get through the GOP controlled Senate. The House has nothing to say in this matter.

But thanks to the fucking Democrats for proving once again how much they hate the UK. :roll:

   



Sunnyways @ Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:47 pm

When communicating with the current UK government, one has to be clear to the point of bluntness:

$1:
If you want to leave with a deal, vote for the damned deal. If you are foolish enough to leave without a deal, do not blame us. Have a couple more weeks to think about it. But if you want something else, a referendum or a softer Brexit, work it out soon. And then send someone who isn’t Theresa May to talk to us about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... hed-brexit


Some background info:
$1:
The outcome extolled by victorious Leavers through the sunlit post-referendum summer of 2016 was meant to be very different. Swashbuckling entrepreneurs should by now be cruising the seven seas harvesting the fruits of freedom for Britannia Unbound. The actual outcome is not just a harsh lesson in economic and political realities, it is a disaster foretold. It has been on the cards since Mrs May's intentions emerged at the Birmingham Conservative party conference in October 2016, and more definitively in her Lancaster House speech in January 2017. The red lines meant departing the EU's single market, ironically the handiwork in large degree of Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government of the 1980s. The intention to escape also the EU's customs regime ensured an end to the frictionless trade with Europe which May also promised, not to mention problems with border controls in Ireland.

There was no possible negotiation which respected the red lines and delivered on May's promises. Any version of Brexit which respected the red lines would do serious economic damage, mainly to the UK itself, while any solution minimising economic damage would never satisfy the Brexiteers. Only if the EU really was the arbitrary, unaccountable super-state of Eurosceptic imaginings could it have torn up the treaties, jeopardised the internal market and abrogated its existing trade agreements around the world in order to accommodate delusional UK demands for 'flexibility'. A trouble-free Brexit has been unattainable since the speech Mrs May made at Birmingham to appease the minority of Tory ultras. To sustained applause, of course, and fawning coverage. Happy days.

https://www.independent.ie/ca/opinion/c ... 45103.html

   



Sunnyways @ Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:50 pm

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
Any US-UK trade deal will have to get through Congress:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 32541.html


It'll have to get through the GOP controlled Senate. The House has nothing to say in this matter.

But thanks to the fucking Democrats for proving once again how much they hate the UK. :roll:


Let’s pray for less profanity. The Senate is part of Congress. And, as I obviously do not need to add, the Democrats do not ‘hate’ the UK.

   



Thanos @ Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:08 pm

BartSimpson BartSimpson:
But thanks to the fucking Democrats for proving once again how much they hate the UK. :roll:


Churchill Bust Derangement Syndrome :lol:

   



BartSimpson @ Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:37 am

Douwe Douwe:
Brexit is a disaster and you can't prove otherwise.


It hasn't happened yet.

[bash]

   



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